Episode 040: Monique Mills - Blazing the Entrepreneurial Trails (Interview Re-Share From Breaking Barriers: Building a Hire Ground)

Monique: 00:00

Hello and welcome back to the Unpolished MBA podcast, I’m your host Monique Mills and today's episode is a little different because I’m sharing a recording of my podcast interview on Breaking Barriers and that’s a podcast that’s produced by Hire Ground which is a tech startup founded here in Atlanta by Cloe Guidry-Reid. It’s actually a software company that’s a software as a service that connects diverse suppliers with enterprise buyers. Now if I said a lot in those words let me explain it a little bit differently. In essence, they provide the connection for minority populations to do business with large companies. It’s pretty incredible what they’ve built and if you’re interested in learning more go to hireground.io. Now as you listen to this episode you’ll hear me talk about things I don’t usually discuss on Unpolished MBA, so it’ll give you some insights and perspectives about me and the work that I do that you haven’t heard before. So let's hop in, enjoy.

Coming Up On Unpolished MBA…

Monique: 01:12

So people have to stop going by the playbook of major players, because that's their book and you have a different one and you haven't defined yours. So that's really where we focus, it's definitely a mindset shift and it's not something you can just throw money at and solve the problem. Some of the most powerful marketing campaigns that have really exceeded revenue goals were very, very cheap. It's about focusing on those core things that I just mentioned.

(Interview Re-Share From Breaking Barriers: Building a Hire Ground)

Adam: 01:40

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Breaking Barriers, Building a Higher Ground. My name is Adam with my co-host Cloe, and today we're continuing a series of women leading the way by welcoming a guest that has blazed many trails in technology and digital transformation. She's the founder of four companies and works tirelessly to help companies overcome obstacles and innovate new rows to technological development. Her career is not restricted to one mode of work, she is a visionary entrepreneur that is intent on solving big problems within the modern world. Welcome everybody, Monique Mills. Monique, thank you so much for joining us today!

Monique: 02:15

Thanks for having me.

Cloe: 02:17

Yes, and just a little bit more about Monique. She is one of my muses, she is just amazing and has given me so much of her time to just help me with growing higher ground. So, I just wanted to say that and that, I just love her before we even get into the interview.

Adam: 02:35

Yes, top of the program right here right now.

Monique: 02:38

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Cloe: 02:40

So much I think just for founders and new entrepreneurs is being able to see people, you know, steps ahead of you and being able to visualize them and the fact that they look like you is just so inspiring just in itself. So I'm just inspired by her and happy to share her story with all of our listeners today.

Monique: 03:00

Thank you so much. That's very kind of you. Thank you.

Cloe: 03:05

So tell us, Monique, all things marketing. Tell us about your skill set. Tell us about your companies. Tell us what you're doing this year.

Monique: 03:14

Oh Gosh, what am I doing this year? It seems like a lot but what I do every day doesn't feel like work at all, so that's why I know I'm doing what I should be doing at this phase of my life. I will say I'm in a give-back phase. In the beginning of my career, I'm a degreed engineer and even before I had my degree I was working for engineering firms.

Cloe: 03:38

What kind of engineering?

Monique: 03:40

I’m an electrical engineer so very, very technical, and my roles, up until I went to get my MBA, and that was about 12 years into my career and everything changed. So when I say that, it's because I knew how to create things, how things should work, how to manage projects, you know, those kinds of things. But really understanding how to make money and how all of these companies I worked for made money, like understanding business models and it was a game changer. Ever since then I became an entrepreneur full time and I never looked back. Coinciding with my engineering career, I started a real estate business and so that's still something that I have going, but I started out just as an investor and then it grew into a full fledged company where I help other people. So I've always done something entrepreneurial, but now I work with combining my tech knowledge with my business knowledge. So I help tech startups launch or launch new products. Sometimes it's not necessarily a new startup, like it's an existing company, that's trying to launch something new. The way things were done, even 10 years ago, it's different than how it's done now, just breathing life into that process so they don't run out of money and motivation getting it done. So everything involved in that is where I concentrate most of my time, but I'm also a professor of entrepreneurship at a university. Just an adjunct so I teach one class a week and I love it. That's definitely a give back time to help the next generation of entrepreneurs understand how things are done and also how to play this venture capitalist game. A lot of people don't realize how the startup world is different than corporate and people are looking for different things from you. So those are two things that I have.I have a marketing company...

Adam & Cloe: 05:47

Monique: 05:51

I have TPM Focus, which is the overall strategy company. And then I have TPM Focus Marketing which is specifically just marketing. So the strategy for launching anything new requires a collaboration of marketing sales, your technologies you're using, and everything needs to align with your revenue goal. So my number one focus with any new product launch is “how are you going to make money?” And our company model for TPM Focused Marketing is if your marketing isn't directly related to growing your revenues, it's just entertainment.

Cloe: 06:32

Right. I think oftentimes companies do that, they're like, let's do some marketing. You know, with the goal of bringing on clients, but there's no metrics around it tied to revenue oftentimes. They just kind of keep these silos of sales and marketing. Oftentimes marketing is not tied to actual numbers.

Adam: 06:52

And they don't understand what it does. I've mentored small, diverse businesses and they’re like “we need a marketing campaign” and I’m like “that's great, why?” And they're like, “because”. I’m like “Because” is probably not the mission statement we want on a marketing campaign. So everybody hears market, market, market…campaign, constant contact, CRM, you know, blah, blah, blah. They're like, “I've got to do it”, but they can't tell you WHY they have to do it. Are these some of the things, some of the common problems maybe, that the companies are making in any stage of their life? Are these some of the things that you guys help them fix and understand and put some of the WHY behind that campaign?

Monique: 07:34

Yes. It's definitely a mindset shift. Even if you're an existing company that's launching a new product, we treat it like a startup. You have to remember, you are not Coca Cola. You are not Nike. You are not Delta. You are not major brands that people…all they need to do is see the symbol and know what it is. If you don't fall into that category, the way you do marketing has to make sense. They can throw money on campaigns, like Coke can do a campaign that never even shows Coca-Cola and they’ll still get sales. You can't do that, you don't have that runway. So we focus on being strategic in your marketing. What is the goal? What are you trying to accomplish? Who are you selling to? What is the value proposition? What is the benefit to them? Is that related in the marketing? How will they trust you? Coca Cola doesn’t have to worry about that. People already trust them, we already know them. So, people have to stop going by the playbook of major players, because that's their book and you have a different one and you haven't defined yours. That's really where we focus. It's definitely a mindset shift and it's not something you can just throw money at and solve the problem. Some of the most powerful marketing campaigns that have really exceeded revenue goals were very, very cheap. You know, it's about focusing on those core things that I just mentioned.

Adam: 09:01

So, in marketing, you pursue the segment that you're trying to go after. Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines, but are you proposing that instead of concentrating on segments, you should concentrate on self? So if I tell my authentic story, I tell my authentic brand, that’s what's going to connect and that’s what's going to resonate with the right segment instead of trying to pursue a specific segment?

Monique: 09:21

Well it depends on how you position the company. Some people are the face of the company and their whole goal is to get the potential buyers, the prospects, to trust them. Especially if you're like a service provider or something like that. Most people, they don't care about me as the CEO or the founder. I need them to buy my technology product or whatever that is. Your focus shouldn't be on you. They don't care about you, they care about what that product is. With segmentation it's not an either or. We need to segment, but who? Why? Every new product launch that focuses on trying to serve it up to too many people at once, fails.

Go somewhere where you know what the value proposition is to that audience, and build your strategy around them. It does not mean that you can only sell to them forever, it's just your market entry strategy. Then once you have enough people, they're like, “oh yeah, I use” We do that all the time right? “I use this company.” People really underestimate word of mouth and there’s no attribution system for that in marketing.

Cloe: 10:37

One of the great things I feel that really resonated with me and Monique may not even remember that she said this, but we talked about in your marketing campaign, she's like, what is the actual problem that you're solving? Is it a problem, or is it a “nice to have”? And I was like, oh yeah. And then she said don't focus on the ”nice to have.” I mean, that's not going to get people's attention, focus on the problem that you're solving and how you're going to solve that problem with these particular individuals. So I just found that, I mean, it just really resonated with me. It’s just about really, really segmentation and being authentic and really meeting people where they are in the challenges that they have.

Monique: 11:17

That's it, Cloe, that's right. So it’s very easy when the product is your baby to forget that? That’s why it’s important to have someone saying, like, I think that graphic is gorgeous. How's it going to make you money? What is it? What is it portraying? Like what are you trying to get those people who consume this piece of marketing to do?

Cloe: 11:40

Exactly, and I think that if you have that messaging down, everything doesn't necessarily have to be so glamorous because you're using the right messaging and it's, it's resonating with your audience and your buyers.

Monique: 11:53

So that's why TPM Focus Marketing went out on its own because TPM Focus focuses on the overall strategy of getting revenues. Then when you know how the whole business model should be set up to get revenues, to launch this new product…but then marketing requires a specific focus of its own. Some people already have their business model down, like I said, not everyone is a new company, but they're launching something new and they just need that full on “how do I launch a new product” style of marketing?

Cloe: 12:22

Yeah, absolutely. How do you feel that, you know, obviously I think when we think about our listeners, especially the larger companies, how do you feel like these different sorts of verticals of just technology and engineering and business and leadership all sort of weave together? What would be your advice to some companies who don't have those teams talking.

Monique: 12:46

It's a big mistake, that’s all I can say. Having come from a highly technical role as an engineer, I mean, I didn't even know for most of them, I didn't even know who was on the marketing team they were completely irrelevant. One of the things that other engineers and I even talk about is like, and I can say this because you know, I do fall into the category of engineers, but engineers can be very cocky and arrogant. They think they're the most important person on the team and what they do is what’s keeping the company alive. And in reality, it's so ridiculous.

Cloe: 13:21

I think everybody thinks that because salespeople think that too. It's like, “oh, what I'm doing is keeping this company afloat.”

Adam: 13:29

And then you have marketing.

Monique: 13:32

Right. So everyone feels that way and kind of works in their silos. I think there should be respect for what each person brings and an understanding of what they do or each department does and how it all correlates. Again, I learned that from my MBA. I know some people would be like, “MBA is overrated” this and that. Now maybe some people can get that from their business experience in the workplace, but that's not what's kind of taught in most companies. So having the diversity of thought is so important, you know, everyone thinks and approaches problems differently and from the perspective of their job, right? And it could be in conflict with another department and how they see their job so really having an understanding of what each department brings to the table, the value they bring it, and how it's important. Number one, how it’s important to serve the customer. Because in reality, the customers are who are keeping the lights on.

Cloe: 14:33

That is so true. Yes, we're all working for the customer. Well, speaking of MBA, you've referenced it several times on just how impactful that was for you and how it was just a pivotal point. I want you to talk a little bit about your podcast, Unpolished MBA. Tell us what that is all about and tell us how and why you started it.

Monique: 15:01

Unpolished MBA really got started because a lot of people who I speak with are like, they feel insecure about how far they've gotten with their business, because they feel as if they had more business training, maybe if they had an MBA, they could be further along and honestly, I don't believe that to be true. So, although I may be the one with all of these credentials, I don't necessarily believe that's true for most people, you don't need that. If you get experiences and you're allowed to be curious and you know, again, collaborate with other departments within your corporate career, you don't have to go out here and get all these separate degrees because you get it right. You know, as I mentioned, I did not have that opportunity because people relied so much on me for, of course leadership and stuff like that but I was known as the technical person who knew everything about aviation systems or everything about power generation or turbines or whatever it was…everything about microelectronics and the list goes on and on for the different things I've done in my career. Ultimately, you really just have to decide what you want to do and is all of this other stuff even necessary and talk to people who are where you want to be. So I started that so that people did not feel insecure about not having an MBA as they stepped out on this entrepreneurial journey because it's not necessary. So that's kind of the theme of the podcast…is telling people as entrepreneurs that really tell their journeys. Some have MBA and some don't and that's why we call them the Unpolished MBA. I consider myself an Unpolished MBA. You know, most MBAs are corporate, you know, and they walk around…I used to wear a black suit and the heels every day. I don't have to do that now, but I get it.

Adam: 16:56

I have my MBA and I'm wearing a hoodie right now. So, you know, I think I may follow the same category.

Monique: 17:01

Right. So it's just a matter of respecting everyone's journey and what you bring to the table and knowing you can tap other people to fill in those gaps of information that you have.

Cloe: 17:10

Yeah. It's definitely important to tap into other people and leveraging that as well. And, there's nothing better than the experience of hands-on learning, I would say, so yeah I definitely don't think people all have to have their MBA.

Adam: 17:22

Then for the business owner to get out of their own. Right? To realize they aren't everything to the company and they, if they're going to grow the company, they can't be everything to the company. Then to go look for those bright minds to fill those dark corners and those gaps to help them bring that company up. Right? I totally agree with that. That’s fantastic.

Monique: 17:43

I get to meet a lot of interesting, smart people, some of which had no college degrees at all, and those are actually the most successful ones I've had on the podcast.

Cloe: 17:53

Well, that's just grit to the core. You know what I mean? That's what that is.

Adam: 17:59

That is baseline bootstrapping at that point. Yeah. Wow. So I'm going to ask this question. Nobody's ever taken us up on it yet. So now that we've interviewed you, we can have our audience expect to have the Breaking Barriers episode on your podcast now too, right?

Monique: 18:14

Yes, I've invited Chloe three times already, she's a busy woman.

Cloe: 18:19

We have to carve out the time and we would be happy to join you. Yes.

Monique: 18:27

Sounds good, it's a deal.

Cloe: 18:28

So tell us a little bit about the Party Match and how you're involved with that. That sounds super interesting.

Monique: 18:35

Well, the Party Match was actually my tech startup, I exited in 2017. So that was…I want to call it a platform because it was, but it was a software that helped those commercial property owners really rent out their underutilized space so that they would also have more foot traffic from partners that they would share spaces with. So I'll give you an example. I was way ahead of what's happening now, but what's happening now as far as foot traffic, I told them would happen eight years ago. But it was hard because I spent a lot of time educating and anytime you're early in adjusting mindsets, you spend so much time adjusting mindsets.

Adam: 19:20

Right we talked about that.

Monique: 19:21

Do you understand that Cloe?

Cloe: 19:22

Adam: 19:24

We’ve had many conversations…

Monique: 19:27

Exactly…I was burnt out from educating. For example, a few partnerships that have happened now and they’re sharing space, one is Kohl’s and Aldi. I know that sounds crazy right? So the way the business was set up was you have to consider who serves, and I do this in marketing too when people are trying to do collaborations…who serves the same demographic of people that you want to serve, but they sell a different product? It doesn't even have to be complimentary, right? Not complimentary. So Kohl's and Aldi in about five different locations around the country they're testing now half of the locations being Kohl’s and the the other half actually being an Aldi grocery store.

Cloe: 20:12

I love that idea though. I absolutely love it!

Adam: 20:16

Is that not trailing to Walmart and Target who are already doing kind of the same thing.

I mean, you see like where those, the neighborhood stores or that format?

Monique: 20:24

Yes, but you get to maintain your brand. So, Walmart, it's all Walmart. So mine was like, no, you keep your brands and y'all serve customers, but they don't have to leave the location and actually can get rid of your location. So because I have a background in real estate, I understood the fixed costs and also part of my background is construction of commercial properties. So I understood the fixed costs of maintaining real estate and how foot traffic was declining by the month for everyone. So the main objective was “let's work this out now” because if you look at Kohl's and Aldi, if you look across the country, they're typically located near each other, usually across the street. It makes sense. Aldi, for example, could benefit from some organization inside the stores. And so having to be more compact, like you mentioned, Adam, like the neighborhood stores at Walmart. When it gets to the point where they're neat and organized, just like Kohl’s is, it actually helps them sell more, you know what I'm saying? It was a combination of a lot of different things that I would have them consider, wow, that makes sense. We still got people coming in, we're still making money without making that move. So what ended up happening was…a lot of these companies will hire me as a consultant to help with their business strategy and I’d be trying to sell them the tech. You understand that Cloe?

Cloe: 21:54

Yes. Yes, Ma'am I do.

Monique: 21:57

Another example is Planet Fitness and Kohl's now have a partnership. Planet Fitness will sell workout clothes from Kohl’s inside the facilities.

Adam: 22:09

Yeah. That makes sense.

Monique: 22:12

So it’s just things like that but the thing is when you co-locate like that you have an opportunity to basically market your brand inside of somewhere else. So I'm thinking Kohl's/Aldi. I'm thinking Planet Fitness/Kohl's because while I'm in there, I need a new pair of workout pants, and they’re right there. So it gets people to buy from you versus leaving, driving to Walmart, Target, whatever to get it. They’re going to buy on site. So just, helping them to understand how buying habits are changing, but not only that, people are going to be buying more online so it's time for you to scale down the amount of real estate you have. But as you can see, plenty of people did not listen to me back at that time and some have, Macys is one of them, and as you see, they've had to shut down so many stores and do so much, but a lot of these players in retail, I've had conversations with them years ago about this.

Adam: 23:08

Isn’t that something…

Cloe: 23:10

I mean, the other day I saw a Buffalo Wild Wings and a Dunkin Donuts together in the same space.

Adam: 23:16

Wow two of my favorite things, that’s danger.

Cloe: 23:21

I thought it was brilliant though, because I'm like, well, you get this morning traffic and it won't interfere with the evening or afternoon traffic, and then you've got that so it's like, you can kind of, I mean, you're both doing very, very well and not really kind of taking up that the parking space in that area because you've got two totally different high points of times.

Adam: 23:42

If you put a Buffalo Wild Wings and a Dunkin Donuts in the front of a Planet Fitness, now we have a trifecta.

Cloe: 23:49

And a Kohl’s and an Aldi right next door. You can just forget the rest of my day, I would be like, “I’m just going to stay right here.”

Adam: 23:53

Amazing! It’s a microcosm of everything you do in the day right there.

Monique: 23:59

Well, just a personal opinion from understanding their franchise model. Dunkin Donuts used to co-locate with Baskin Robbins. Right? I feel like Dunkin Donuts can't figure out who they want to date and who they want to marry, like they’ll mix with whoever will give them the attention.

Adam: 24:17

I feel the same way about PepsiCo. I'm like, what are you guys doing? Who all do you still own and why? Yeah, I get you Monique.

Cloe: 24:27

Oh, gosh. Yeah. These brands, but, you know, I think it's still smart. I think that just kind of goes to innovation and marketing too, it's like, you have to test things, you know, when we talk about just design thinking is that you've got to test different things if you think it'll work and if it doesn't work, you've got to fail fast and pivot quickly.

Adam: 24:44

Fail often.

Monique: 24:47

Keep learning and iterating on your ideas.

Adam: 24:52

So speaking about continuing to learn, there are so many groups out there, WIT is one of the ones that comes to mind that helps support women in business. What are some of the common issues regarding gender and equality in the workplace that you're seeing today and how can organizations like WIT or other entrepreneurs kind of help move the conversation on some of those issues.

Monique: 25:13

Wow. That's a big topic. Organizations like WIT (Women in Technology). Part of the work that I've done with them on a volunteer basis is speaking with students about careers and realistically, how is it going to be? I don't mean to scare them out of it, but I mean, to tell them the truth, right? And so that's what we've been doing and not just that organization, but other organizations, because what we found is being women who have been in corporate in engineering and STEM roles, is “wow, no one told me it was going to be like this” and it's a mass exodus of women out of those fields once they get there and suffer a lot of the, like just a lot of the things that hold them back. And they don't understand why, because they're smart, they do their work and just other things that they didn’t expect as far as politically. So in those organizations, we basically prepare students who are pursuing STEM or thinking about it on what it's really like. So I don't just share the challenges, I also share the advantages because it's very few careers where you can come out of college and make $80,000+ and literally change your life. I tell them, it just depends on what's important to you. Representation is important to me so that's part of the reason why, even though I'm not in the lab building things anymore, I'm still a representation of a woman in STEM. Right, and I always let people know I’m an engineer because it helps other people see “I was very technical, but if I want to create a business of my own, I can also do that, now I have the skillset.”

Then organizations like WIT also help women who are professionals in STEM in the workplace to kind of have a network of support. I see a lot of instances where women will refer others in the organization to jobs. That's really what we have to do. We have to push it forward. We can't be afraid to say, “Hey, this person is qualified. I'd like to add them to the interview pool.” I also think that organizations should consider how they utilize the talents of their women. And understand their own biases. I'll give you an example. Luckily, I didn't play this game, but once I got a little older…when I remember when I first started my engineering career…it was always the women who were selected to put together the Christmas Party. And it's like, why? You have to stop doing that. Stop perpetuating things, let people volunteer, don't assume that the woman, if someone needs to be picked up from the airport, send her right. It's just like those things where they feel, it’s almost like a transference of what their expectations are in their home to be in the workplace. And I think they need to be more aware of the biases they perpetuate and that's why there's training in organizations that help with that, but it's not free. So, number two is invest the money to get the outcomes you're looking for.

Cloe: 28:31

Absolutely. I have a funny story about that a few years ago, probably about five or six years ago when I was in a corporate environment. I was leading this team. I was the producer on the account, had the relationship, but the immediate brokerage team were all men. And so we had a meeting that was coming up and they wouldn't have asked this to any other producer, but they were like “can you print out all the agendas ahead of time and make sure that we have those.” And I'm like “whose job is that? That's not my job.” I mean, I had to literally kind of call them out on it and they were like “Oh, okay, no problem. We'll get it. We just figured that you probably want to just handle that piece.” And I’m like…”in addition to everything else that I’m handling?!” So yeah, you're right. Those unconscious biases…it's unfortunate.

Monique: 29:21

To also be considered in an administrative role and your technical role. Like you have all of these kinds of expectations and if you dare say that's inappropriate, you know, then now you have some type of stigma placed on you about not necessarily being a team player and all of this, like sure I'm a team player. I just happen to be a woman. And I want the same respect as the men on the team, if I may dare ask for that.

Cloe: 29:54

You talked a little bit about just coaching and mentoring young women. How have you seen technology in general change and has the face of it changed? Do you see more women moving into technology and those that are potentially considering moving into technology, what would be your advice to them?

Monique: 30:13

The good thing about it is with the barriers to entry being lowered, as far as becoming a founder of a tech company, it's less scary for women who let's say are in marketing or sales to say “you know what, I know how to create something, or I can hire somebody or a developer to create something to solve this problem that I see in the business community.”

So I think that with the barriers of entry to entrepreneurship, now you don't have to buy out servers and all this other stuff. More women overall who probably wouldn't have taken those steps to create a company, have. Technology is one of those things that I think have tried to equalize some things, but at the same time, especially with things like artificial intelligence, it’s reinserting the bias into our daily lives. The thing is, technology is only as perfect as the people who create it, who are also imperfect. So biases are inherently embedded in technology. So again, we have to address that through, bringing awareness, having training, and people getting on board with it without feeling like they're being slighted. Because now they're having to share space with people they didn't have to before. They're having to consider opinions that they didn't have to consider before and so just being respectful I think is important.

Cloe: 31:52

I mean just, one of the things I thought about when you said that is just, even when you're designing these products and using AI, making sure that you have a diverse team and if you don't have that internally, hiring someone outside of the organization, a consultant per se, but also that you're bringing different perspectives because you want to reflect the consumer experience, right? If your consumers are diverse, why would you not have women and minorities…a part of building the initial product.

Monique: 32:22

Exactly. But I have to insert this because this comes up so much. You do want the involvement of women, minorities, whatever, to have a fully inclusive dialogue about how things should go. But pay them. Stop asking for them to teach you about diversity and insert their opinions to help your product grow for free.

Cloe: 32:47

Do you see that happening a lot?

Monique: 32:48

Oh my gosh yes. Even within an organization. So you have within an organization…let's say I am the person of color that's on the team, of course, in engineering, I probably was the only black person or the only woman. So if something comes up like “Oh yeah, we want to diversify our pool, ask Monique.” I'm not a DEI expert. You're not going to pay me more for doing research. Just because I'm black, doesn't make me an expert on diversity and inclusion.

Cloe: 33:18

Adam and I were just talking about this last week.

Monique: 33:23

But this happens every day. Every day. Also back to being a woman. Well, what kind of resources do we need on the campus in order to accommodate women that are here, do we need a nursing room? Do we need this? Okay, just because I'm a woman doesn’t mean I’m the best person and then the thing is, my expertise on this subject…is it not valued? They don't pay you extra for this. It definitely helps the business, but my thing is what is the incentive for people to share that type of information, and put in that effort and find the other people for you to talk to make it a well-rounded conversation? Value their expertise even though you feel like “you're black, you know that information. No need to worry about compensating people for their time.” And I get DMs saying “We're looking for the black women engineers”. Okay, go ahead.

Cloe: 34:25

I mean, we talked about this and I don't know how this will be received by our listeners, but just that there's been this influx of new DNI roles that have just been popping up. And the majority of them, it's like 80% of them are black women and you're a black woman, I think black women are exponentially talented, but I often think that it's just something like “oh, well you're black and you're a woman so you must know about DNI so we're just going to put you into this role” as opposed to actually finding someone that really knows about equity and inclusion and really instead of their siloed perspective I think is critical. Oftentimes companies don't take the time to do that. They just make an assumption…”you fall into two of these groups, these category groups so you must know everything there is to know about this.”

Adam: 35:18

It's a very odd form of stereotyping yet again and it's something that I think comes from a place of trying to do the right thing and then you wind up doing the wrong thing without coming and talking to those of that are actually in the field and do this day in day out and have these conversations and not afraid to back away from the hard talks, you've got to go look for them don't just assume because a person walks or looks or talks a certain way that they have an expertise in it. Monique, I think that's right on the head. Once again, because then all we're doing is perpetuating the problem with a new cover.

Cloe: 35:52

Yeah. I think about DNI questions that I have, or just particularly…even if I'm wanting to bounce something off of someone about diversity, who do I go to? I go to Adam. It’s like “let's talk about this. What do you think about this?” I think organizations need to look at skill sets in general.

Monique: 36:18

I know DEI experts…I personally know rockstars that are not black. I'm like, “you are amazing.” I'll share a little bit of a personal story here. My kids' school, when they were in elementary school, one of the teachers really was really in a cry for understanding more of how to be personable and accommodating to people who were not white. Although the school was very diverse, all of the teachers, all of the administration, everyone was white dealing with kids of color, different backgrounds, all of that. There was a lot of miscommunication, misunderstandings and parents taking their kids out of the school. Because I have people that I know that are experts at that, I reached out to them and luckily I had ones that were white women so that they could relate with these white women that ran the school. Sometimes people want to level with someone they feel like, okay they understand me, they get me and I get that, but I'm not the expert in that because, sometimes the expert in it doesn't look like what you expect it to look like, look for the expertise. Like Cloe said.

Cloe: 37:45

But I think in that situation, you're bringing an insider to talk about sort of an outsider sort of topic. You know what I mean? So people naturally gravitate towards people that they have affinities too and so off the cuff that woman probably was received and she was able to kind of have some sort of candid conversations….what we call them as family conversations and then say “okay, this is how we need to approach this because this is why this is offensive” and then they could speak freely without feeling like they're offending anyone, you know?

Monique: 38:22

Exactly. Yeah. I haven't seen it played out exactly in that way, I have to agree with Cloe.

Cloe: 38:28

So before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you one last question. Obviously you've done a lot of different things and I haven't seen such a unique career trajectory in a really, really long time and been successful in all these different verticals. What are some of the lessons that you've learned throughout your career and how have those lessons sort of shaped you as a person and you as an entrepreneur?

Monique: 38:54

I would say, number one, never stop learning and I also say, number two, never stop learning from everyone around you. Sometimes people think once they make it to a certain point in education or near career, they know more than people who are in other positions that may not be as high as theirs. I'm the first one to tell you some of the smartest people. I know, as I mentioned to you before, some of the people that have filled in blanks for me and still I rely upon to this day, don't have the background in education or whatever, like what I have. And I think ultimately it comes down to…I'm intentional about learning something from every person I encounter. I believe that everyone has value and there's a reason why we've met. I try to extract that value from them and of course they try to extract value from me, but it's definitely respecting that everyone has value and information that could be helpful to you. So that's just the way I approach life. That's the way I approach corporate and that's the way I approach entrepreneurship. Luckily it has led me to some of the most incredible talented people that I would not have ever met if I only looked for other people with an engineering degree and MBAs.

Cloe: 40:19

So true. So true. Well, thank you so much for coming to the show and for all of our listeners who may need some marketing support, may need some marketing strategy, may need some business consulting, just overall launching new markets; launching new products. You can find Monique on LinkedIn at Monique Mills, or you can check out her podcast at www.unpolishedmba.com. You can also learn more about how Monique is changing the world by going to TPMFocus.com and moniquemills.biz. Thank you again, Monique.

Monique: 41:00

Thank you.

Monique: 41:04

Thank you for listening to the Unpolished MBA podcast. To hear more episodes or to request to become a guest, please visit www.unpolishedmba.com.